Online Money Making

[Cartoon]

Scorpion , what is the concept of HYIP , I mean how they run this system ? I have visit few of the website about it, they say if we deposit about $10, we can get 1~2% profit daily . Then what are they actually doing!? I mean how they gona make the 2% for us? If this is true, then...:whistling

[scorpion]

Very few HYIPs are legit while most are scams. Hyip admins claim they need a large pool of money to gain edge in trading in forex or investing in real estate, oil, offshore company, and so on. Some claim million dollars pool allow them to open up arbitrage opportunities in forex. Many claim they poccess holygrail systems and super professional team to make money for you while you're sleeping!

Fraudulent or not, hyips really show patterns and warning signs whether they'll fail in next week or next month. For a forex fisherman, I'm thinking of applying my knowledge in forex to hyip like applying money management and technical analysis, so on. I have some crazy ideas like gauging the mass phychology with technical indicators.

Anyway, hyip is just one opportunity to make money. I got basketful of stuffs to dig in and test.

[Ravique]

I have played arround with HYIP`s for some time. Here is what I think about em :

In my opinion, there are no HYIP project, that really invest in forex, stocks, or something else. Well, maybe there are projects like that, but the minimum investment should be ( in my opinion ) at least a 100$, not 10 or 15.

So as I think, most HYIP ` s are simple ponzi projects. Projects where money from new clients is used to pay to old client. So it is like gambling, everyone knows, that eventually the HYIP will drop and people will loose money, but the goal for every1 is to catch the profits , or most of the profits untill the drop.

Of course you can make a profit there, if u use smart money management, work out a HYIP picking criterias and so on, but for me something more real came up, maybe I will return to them when I have time .

P.S. I invested about 30$ in different projects, and was in profit at first , with about 67$ for three days, but then I put all of them in one project that already paid me once, and on the next day they stopped making payouts, so here is a first ruel of investing in HYIP`s : Never put all your eggs in one basket. I got a little greedy and made a mistake, it is good that it was only 70$ , not 700 =)

[gazuz]

Problem with HYIP's is that they ask for e-gold because they can't get traced back. Paypal won't let them process anything.

I had the idea of starting my own HYIP but just to use other people's funds to start a forex account in the tens of thousands. The percentage of profit would be directly associated with the profit the expert makes. I also was thinking of doing with cycles so people don't take out all their money during a trade or a series of trades. But since no payment processor will accept besides e-gold and your the one stuck with all the taxes, it comes out to not be worth it. Best thing to do is probably a private investment fund, more local.

I was thinking of starting that since I live close to a rather wealthy neighbor hood, put flyers in mailboxes etc. I don't think anything is good on the internet unless your the one that started it. The first HYIP's made a significant amount of profit, the first investors as well. the get-paid-to has just become ridiculous and too many people have them. autosurfing is just not worth it either, it brings you a few hits but that just becomes pennies after months.

Domain selling is almost dead now there are too many domain sellers and not enough buyers (unless you get a three-letter domain).

Sports betting I got crushed at. I made different spread sheets and in the end found out it was all bad. I was thinking of parlaying the best teams but then noticed that when the odds are greatly in your favor they won't let you do that. So i ended up finding out you make less than 20% when you bet and win on a team and you lose 100% for every time you lose. I used the yahoo expert and found this year's profit would have been ~30% for the whole year with a maximum betting of $10,000 and ~50 bets would mean you bet $500,000 during the season to win $3,000. worth it? I think not

Anywho I think the key right now is to work with the forex and fight greediness. People always get mad because they missed a big move when their little take profit touched at the bottom. But if you make many of these TP everyday and compound your earning that'll be a nice add.

Here is some simple math:

Start with a $10,000 account and 2 lots/trade. Close all trades at 5pips (5 pips profit, spread already paid for). You make maybe 3 trades per day. That makes 15pips/day. In an average of 20 trading days per month would make 300pips/month thats $6,000/month or 60% (thats huge). Compound your earnings and base your lots as balance/500(pips ur almost sure to never lose since the TP and SL are so small). So you have $16,000 on month two and your new settings are 3.2lots/trade and still 5pips times 3/day for 20day month. Now you're making $9,600/month (this is going to go fast now I'm going to keep the calculations for you).
month 3: $25,600 and 5lots/trade
month 4: $40,600 and 8lots/trade
month 5: $64,600 and 13lots/trade
month 6: $103,600 and 20lots/trade

Now I could go on but I have to stop the excitement and make sure you remember this is if you have no losing trades or if you just make that 300pips/month goal. Of course the market is never perfect and sometimes you might not be making those 15pips/day maybe sometimes you'll be making 30 maybe sometimes -10 who knows. Now if you take a quick look at the M5 and M15 charts you'll see that those 5 pips are possible. But don't hit yourself on the head and wonder why your not aiming for those 100 pips line that going up when you only take 5.

now I will finish the year:
month 7: $163,600 and 32lots/trade
month 8: $259,600 and 52lots/trade
month 9: $415,600 and 83lots/trade
month 10: $664,600 and 100lots/trade (maximum)
month 11: $964,600 and 100lots/trade
month 12: $1,264,600 and 100lots/trade

Remember this get huge so for every pip you win/lose it'll be worth $1,000 =P

Now you may want to do divide by 1,000 pips to be safer etc but in the end if you still aim for those 300pips/month you'll be making $300,000 per month.

I know a lot of people are thinking 15pips/day is a dream for many people but look into it, many people have been greedy and lose their money because they don't want to make small trades because they look insignificant. After the 10th month here each 5pip trade would be worth $5,000.

I'm sure this compounding strategy has been shared a thousand times but we need to find an expert (or you can do it yourself 10 minutes/trade) to get those 5pips

P.S. This is the longest post I've ever written!

Thanks for reading
-Gazuz

[scorpion]

:W00t: Very looong reply ever posted. But I remember Rav posted a long one too probably last year.

Sports betting I got crushed at. I made different spread sheets and in the end found out it was all bad. I was thinking of parlaying the best teams but then noticed that when the odds are greatly in your favor they won't let you do that. So i ended up finding out you make less than 20% when you bet and win on a team and you lose 100% for every time you lose. I used the yahoo expert and found this year's profit would have been ~30% for the whole year with a maximum betting of $10,000 and ~50 bets would mean you bet $500,000 during the season to win $3,000. worth it? I think not

I agree. The winning is always 20%-30%, but the losing is 100%, so I don't think raw betting is gonna make any profit here--assuming sport-betting as systemless gambling. But just last week, I came across a working software at surebetpro.com that monitors and reports sport odds arbitrage. It's said that sport arbitrage is risk free, because whatever side wins or loses, we always get 2%-6% profit per betting. I tried the software out for $180 or so to see for myself and it's so real that sportbookers really make arbitrage! There're lots of 2%-4% arbs every moment with Tennis and Basketball games. I haven't involved in real betting yet, as my 1k testing fund is now stuck in autosurfs. Check out a video explaining sport arb and the sbp software at http://www.riskfreeprofit.com/sbpmovie/surebetpro.htm. And there's an old guy at http://www.sportsarbitragereview.co.uk who really live off from arbing sports alone! A must read. Any experience with this stuff before?

Will comment on your 5 pips system later.

[gazuz]

Scorpion, I've find a bit of a problem with that program. It says theres about 70 bookmakers but that means you need to signup for each of them and theres a minimum deposit for each site. That means you'll need to start a big fund in order to start this trading. Then there is a maximum amount of money/trade. The bookmarkers also look at each other and making $31.89 with $1,000 means you need to put about $500 in both brokers. And most likely you're going to need to signup to A LOT of bookers.

Think about it though you're going to need a lot of money to start this, even though the money is sure to come to u its going to be in 70 different bookers and some might even shut down and you lost all the money thast in there.

Arbitrade would be a good way to go if you start with a bigger amount of money and if there were less bookers. I've thought of doing that before I was introduced to arbitrage but most of the odds are extremely close together and I just thought it wasn't worth it.

Let me know what you think of the 5pips (I aimed a bit high but compounding will still give a rather high amount)


EDIT: Sorry for the thread high-jack. Scorpion you can just send me a PM and tell me if I'm missing a detail

[scorpion]

No problem gaz. I've splitted to new topic now, so let's talk more about online money making.

Gaz, I think top 10 bookmakers are enough to start with, coz the big arbs are mostly generated from them. I'm thinking of starting with $5,000 splitted to 10 bookmakers, so around $500 each. I've done some research on them; they're multi-million dollar offshore companies, so i'll put my trust assuming they won't shut down anytime soon. I know I won't make a living off this stuff, as yes it has maximum bets and bookmakers might someday catch me red handed betting arbs, then i would be kicked out with the balance. However, while we can arb, I don't mind having $1k-2k a month to pay my bills.

About the 5pips system. I know what u're thinking here as I was thinking the same thing before. Yup 5 pips are possible, but... in long term, the occassional drawdowns will burn the whole account! I run a backtesting on various scalping systems, but only thing is the big drawdowns will kill them, as sometimes the market doesn't even give you 1 pip. The only explanation is the markets are not linear.

Progressive money management will generate more revenue for sure, but will also generate bigger losses. So if something went terribly wrong in one trade, the whole account can be blown away overnight. I'm not saying this mm is bad, but we have to limit the max to 10 lots or so. If we could go high up to 100 lots, we would have become filthy rich millionaires already.

By the way, I've also come across roulette and blackjack systems. It's said that there're two opportunities to make money with. First one, make around $100 to $300 from each and every online casino, possibly a few thousands dollars in a few weeks. The strategy is you take advantage of initial deposit bonus casinos give. It's 100% bonus up to $200-$600 for first deposit, so all we have to do is to wage around 50 times the amount of money deposit then we're allowed to withdraw money out. For example, if we deposit $200, we'll have $400 to gamble, then we'll have to wage repeatedly until the wages amount accumulated to $10,000, then we can withdraw the money. There're gambling systems that allow us to reach that amount in a few hours play while not blowing out the account. If you're interested, we'll talk more indept about this.

[gazuz]

The roullette I heard about was that you just do the doubling wager method. You bet 1$ on black, then if u lose u bet 2$ then if u lose u bet 4$ etc etc until u get the right one and u go back to 1$.. In the end you will make that $1, repeatedly. Now the problem is that if you lose too many times u can empty out your account. Some people calculate how much you need in order to make 1$ everytime u click. For example:

bet #1 is 1$, win $1 or keep going if u lose
bet #2 is 3$, win $2 or keep going if u lose
bet #3 is 7$, win $3 or keep going if u lose
#4 is 15$
#5 is 31$

In case you have noticed you multiply the wager by two and add a dollar. Now this method also works with online coin flip games but they put a limit of $100 and minimum of 1$ per bet. So in the end you can be winning a lot and then lose those 100$ + 50$ + 25$ + 12.5$ + 6.25$ + etc etc etc until wherever you started. That is the roulette I learned.

Black jack you can play with odds all the time. I found a chart about two months ago that told what the percentage of winning was if you had these cards etc etc whether to hit or to stay. Basically it's the chart that the casino dealer has and uses, so you get the same chances as the house.

http://www.online-casinos.com/images...jack-chart.gif

It's called a "basic strategy" and nothing important. Let me know about that those casion strategies, I'm eager to learn the mathematics behind it.

You can PM or post, your choice on this one.

Thanks

[scorpion]

Nope, i'm not talking about marginale progressive betting, but another kind of betting. This stategy is said to make you around $70-$140 per hour. In roulette, there're 1st 12 (Low), 2nd 12 (Middle), and 3rd 12 (High), right? The strategy is that you bet on any row that doesn't hit for the last 5 spins. First you simply spin 5 times without betting and note down all outcome. Let's say the outcome for the 5 spins are L H L H H, so now we bet $1 on the middle (M), because it's not hit for 5 spins. If we win, we'll profit $2. We keep spinning until any row is not hit for 5 consecutive spins. Ok, say we spins 3 times more (L H L H H M M H), so now we bet on L because it's not hit for the last 5 spins (L H L H H M M H).

The concept of this strategy is that the odds is tiny for a row not being hit once in 16 spins. It happens about 19 times in 10,000 spins for single-zero wheel. By the time this happens, we have made more profit to cover the max drawdown already. We use below progressive betting stategy to play (assumming we bet $1 initially):

Bet $1
If lose, bet $2
If lose, bet $3
If lose, bet $4
If lose, bet $6
If lose, bet $9
If lose, bet $14
If lose, bet $21
If lose, bet $32
If lose, bet $47
If lose, save the rest of balance to play tomorrow.

Maximum drawdown is only $139. The profit is $2-$4 for each win regardless of last 9 losses.

[gazuz]

Hmm, I have to say this is rather messy in my head right now. Whether the rouletter has hit M 500 times before it doesnt mean it has a better chance of hitting an L or H the next, unless it is because it's programmed. Each choice has a 1/3 chance, it's not like there is a limited amount of H's, L's and M's. In the end there will be a somewhat equal number of H's L's and M'l but the past cannot predict the future when its outcome is independent.

Once again though I think it is because of the software, it might choose a random sequence. For example it will try to not make the same choice appear more than 30 times out of 35 or something...

Think about it though, this math is more of take a marble out of the bag and put it back in then shake and take another one. It is not take a marble out, keep it out and choose another one. What I mean by that is this:

If there are 10 H's, 10L's and 10M's then chosing an H, L or M is each 1/3 change. If you then get 5 M's in a row, the chances of getting an H will not be 10/25 (2/5) but still 1/3. I think this is either a software issue or just a psychological reaction. If you choose to roll a die and say for example 1,2 is H, 3,4 is M and 5,6 is L... You'll probably get the same results.


Now on a related note of predicting the future based on the passed:

I think the best way to read the currency market is just to go with a moving trend, telling the future is near impossible. I've never really been into those neurologic things but I know that technical analysis should not be based on a past move but past REACTIONS. What we have to base the trades on are how the market reacts to things such as those triple candle moves in the same direction etc. Sometimes these things are temporary such as it goes up for one more candle and then the market goes crazy again in different directions. This is why I aim for such a small amount of profit per trade, these small trends can go crazy later but if you get in on that one last step of sanity, there is a lot of profit to be gotten.

Scorpion, I think we should make an RSX or some kind of short term trader that can close trades with less than 5 pips. What I mean by this is a TP that is within the expert itself not metatrader so it acts as a human would close it. I know metatrader doesnt accept you putting a take profit smaller than 5 pips but closing it manually works, so why not make an expert do it for us?
Let me if anything like that has ever been done or has been filtered out.